In deze aflevering.
De Cowboy is niet langer alleen een man of vrouw op een paard van vlees en bloed, maar ook een man of vrouw op een stalen ros. Voorafgaande aan de perspresentatie van de Cowboy Cross spraken met de founders van dit mooie merk.
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Automatisch gegenereerd, niet nagelopen · 29 fragmentenJa, wat doet hij eigenlijk? Ja, uh ja, iets met tech. Ja, iets met tech. In deze special van Iets met Tech praten we met de oprichters van het e-bikemerk Cowboy. Zij lanceerden onlangs hun vierde model met de naam Cross. We praten over het waarom van zelf alle onderdelen ontwikkelen, waarom men begon met het ontwikkelen van de app en daarna pas de fiets en op welke vlakken de Cross is veranderd ten opzichte van de voorgaande modellen. Deze podcast is buiten opgenomen voorafgaande aan de perspresentatie van de Cowboy Cross. Vandaar dat je op de achtergrond nog wat bijgeleide hoort en overkomende vliegtuigen. Veel plezier met deze Iets met Tech.
Is that a remarkable pad? That's a remarkable, yeah. You wanna play with it? I wanna play with it. After, you gonna play with it. Okay. I heard a lot about it. Oh, it's cool that I can- Yeah... that the founder of Cowboy see something that's mine that he's excited about. [laughs] So that's, that's a plus one for me. So guys, um, who, why is the name Cowboy? What's the reason behind the name? It's an easy question, you know- Yeah... to loosen things up. So, you know, the, the name of a company is, uh, of a consumer company is, is pretty important. And I, we chose a-- I mean, I had chosen a bad name for my first company. [laughs] So [laughs] I really wanted a good name for, [laughs] for this one. Um, the name Cowboy really aims to, um,
to explain emotionally what we stand for, right? So emotionally, we stand for this feeling of freedom that you have when you jump on your bicycle and you ride within the city, freed of, freed of traffic. Yeah. Um, I also like the fact that the first, um, bicycle were referred to as, uh, mechanical horses. Yeah. Uh, and so in a way, uh, that makes the electric bike the new, uh, the new horses. Yeah. Well, it's, it's a great name because it also has a sense of adventure in it. And, um, uh, and it's just to, to... Like Cowboy, it's like, like really nice. So is the... I'm a brand person, I think, like the, the brand, the feeling, the emotion of a product is, is as important as a, as, as the product itself. Is this also your, your vision behind the brand?
Um, beliefs are being questioned, and it's important for people to rely around, uh, common causes and, and, and purpose. And I think, uh, modern and, and successful brands do exactly that. They, they, they have this ability to rally people together, to get people together around a, a common purpose, and to help you in your journey to, to become the, the, the person you, you, you wanna be. It sounds lofty, but I, I strongly believe in that. Yeah. Is having fun also a big important point in your company? It is, absolutely, right. Yeah. I think, you know, we, we had this interesting discussion recently with one of our board member who reminded us that we, you know, we sell electric bikes, so we, we sell fun. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah.
And you know, we, we are, uh, every day working, you know, as an entrepreneur, every day you're working on, uh, solving problems, right? Yeah. So it's something that you may, uh, you may forget, but it's, it's good to get your, your head up and realize that you, you sell, you know, you sell clean and efficient transportation to people, but you, you also sell fun. Yeah. Great. I get back on the brand. Um, so it's now 2024, and it's an important year for your company. I guess y- you're the one answering this one. It's because, you know, you're a startup. You started in 2017, around, around that year. I tested 2017, the first one. Um, um, uh, so you're getting now a, a more mature company. So this year will be a year you have to, like we say in the, in the Netherlands, black numbers for your company. Um, do you have confidence in getting there?
We, we've, we've committed to getting there, um, two years ago with, uh, with our investors when the, you know, when the, the, the market started, started turning and became clear that, you know, we couldn't continue simply on this, uh, race to raise, uh, more, more, more and more capital. It's, it's obviously the goal for any company in the world at some point in time to be, uh, to be in the black. But as you're innovating and your focus is on building new product, building new technology, growing, it may not be, or it's usually not the focus of very ear-very early stage startups. But it's, it's been a, a, a direction for us, uh, since, uh, since nearly two years. Um, it's our objective this year to, uh, be break even, uh, on a, a BDA level. Yeah.
Um, and, um, break even and ideally positive on a net profit level, uh, next year. Yeah. So that, that's the, the less sexy part of a company, I guess, but it's very important. Did you get... Because Corona was n- for the bike industry was, was like crazy, right? Because there were, there was so money demand and, and, and, um... But after Corona, a lot of companies saw this, like this, this, this small dip that you had a lot of stock but no more, uh, sales. Uh, how did you manage to get through it? Because I, I... Maybe it wasn't that difficult for your company. I, I think for us it didn't change much because since the COVID one, actually, we, we've always been fighting to have, uh, to have stock.
Um, we always had to produce, uh, more, and we couldn't match the, the demand, uh, because of the new supply chain. So we had to, uh, set everything up from, from the start, from the con in, in 2017. And then you have to basically scale, uh, together with your suppliers in making sure that you can, um, match the demand. But as Adrien was saying, we've raised quite a lot of money, and what money does is basically compress time. And so it doesn't give you a lot of time to do all of that. Um, it would been, it would have been easier for us if, um, everything was made organically, but it wasn't the case. So, uh, we grew like pretty, pretty quickly the first years. Um, it was the same during COVID.
Uh, but my point is it didn't change that much for us because, um, it was always a fight, uh- Yeah... to, [laughs] to basically grow the supply chain to, to match the demand. Okay, cool. So let, let's get into the products, but that's, because that's the, the most fun, uh, one. Um-Today you're presenting a, a new bike. Um, before we get to that one, you're building the bike totally yourself. So it's not like a frame and you add, like, stuff you buy in a sort of Chinese supermarket and, and put it on. It's, you design all the stuff yourself. Um, I have a few questions about that. A small one, because I don't want to get too much into the VanMoof situation. Yeah, we're outside. It, it doesn't matter. Um, it's...
But, you know, it's, it's, in supply chain, it's a nightmare to have all those, uh, things yourself, right? So you... I don't know, the, the, the brakes, the, the belt, uh, the bell or... You make all the stuff yourself. Why did you choose, uh, for this way, and how do you manage to get, you know, making these bikes without... Because when the chain's not there, there's no bike. Yeah. Look, when we, um, we, we started the company to accelerate the adoption of cycling and our approach to doing that, essentially our, our, our strategy, which is our product strategy, is to develop, uh, a better product experience. And to do that, we believed in building, uh, a bike that is, uh, beautiful, that is simple, and that is connected. Yeah. So if you wanna do that, you cannot simply buy and assemble off-the-shelf parts and systems.
Uh, you actually have to start by the consumer- Yeah... by the, by the potential future rider. Think about their needs, problems, and opportunities. And our way to answer most of these, uh, needs and opportunities is to actually, uh, build a mobile application so that we will build features and offer services through this mobile application, um, with our consumer, uh, as they get the bike. So for us, the, the sa- the sale of the bike is not the end of the transaction. It is very the beginning, right? Yeah. We, we wanna build this relationship with our community of riders for years and ideally decades, right? Yes. So to, to, to build, uh, that, uh, towards that vision, we actually had to start from a blank sheet of paper.
We, we started by designing the app, then we started de-designing the electronics to connect the app to the bike and the bike to our platform. Then we build the electrical system around those electronics, and only then we build the bike around- Oh, wow... all of that system. So it's, it's kind of the opposite approach of traditional- Reserve, reverse engineering sort of. Uh, yeah. It's, it's the opposite approach of traditional bicycle, uh, companies who've initially designed, uh, bicycle frames, then they bought systems from Sh- you know, like brake or gear systems from, from Shimano- Yeah... and then electrical system from Bosch. Yeah. But then the problem with them, if, um, the, the-- Let's, let's start with the, the, the advantage, right? Yeah. The advantage that they, they didn't have to, to invest much.
Um, they can, they can, uh, build and offer high quality products to, to their consumer. And that's how the electric market started- Yeah... like 10 years ago- Yeah... thanks to those components manufacturers. Yeah. But the problem is that all of these traditional bicycle brand, they end up being constrained in their design by the parts that they buy off the shelf. Yeah. Um, which makes also for products that are not optimized from a, a riding point of view. Yeah. That are end up being fairly complex with, uh, buttons and settings, et cetera, because they have to assemble off-the-shelf systems. Um, and then they, they cannot build a relationship with their, with their customers because they are stuck in those closed systems from, uh, from, from, from Bosch or, or, or, or others.
So it's a long way to say that we, we, we had to take... We decided to take, to go on this, uh, more difficult journey from the start. Yeah. It's been our vision from the start. Yeah. That's why we had to raise, uh, capital, and that's why we had to iterate so fast and- Yeah... um, made a lot of mistakes in the beginning. Um, but also, also that we believe that that's what will make for a very strong product- Yeah... and a very strong company, and a very defensible company over, um, over, over time. So, um, while it is true that it makes for a harder... It, it is harder to- Yeah... to, especially to design those parts, right? I think managing the supply chain, frankly, ultimately it's pretty similar. We, we...
The way we're managing the supply chain is pretty similar to another bicycle manufacturer because we still have to order those parts from- Yeah... all of these manufacturers, and then we work with a, with a, with an assembler to assemble our bike. Like, at Cobow we, we, we design products and we sell those product, but we don't manufacture anything ourselves, right? So we, we have those partnerships with all of these, uh, manufacturers. But you're, you're owner of the design. It's your intellectual prop- And we're owner of the design. Uh, exactly. Yeah. We, we, we build intellectual property- Yeah... and then we sell it. Yeah. Okay, cool. Um, so the, the, the bike is, like, uh, standing on, on the right, on your left. Um, gorgeous looking bike. Thank you. Um, it's, it's, it's the third or the fourth model? It's the fourth generation. Yeah.
Um, so we started, I think you mentioned it, right? Yeah. You tried, uh, Cobow 1- Yeah... when we, uh, when we started. So Cobow 1 we launched in Belgium in 20, uh, 18. Then we launched Cobow 2 in the Netherlands and other European countries in 2019. Then we continued to evolve with Cobow 3, Cobow 4. We've now stopped with the naming because essentially it was... At the beginning, it was very, you know, just to build on what I was saying, what I was saying. Sorry. Yeah. It was really important to, um, [clears throat] to elevate the, the, the quality and the performance, the reliability of, of our platform. Now we do believe that we have a platform that is, uh, robust and mature enough. Of course, we keep evolving it every day behind the scenes- Yeah... but we don't talk about it. Yeah.
And now our focus is really to build, um, a, a s- a family of products that can answer to different, different type of people, different type of needs, right? So we started with a very minimalistic bike that we now call the Classic. Yeah. And last year we evolved it to Cruiser, which is a, a more Dutch style- Yeah... of riding position. Yeah. More comfortable. Yeah. And now we're making, let's say two step forwards. We're launching Cross- Yeah... which we are building on that, um, need or desire for more comfort. So you see the bigger tires, um, front and subtle suspensions. Um, again, this more upright, uh, riding, um, r-riding positions, um, a bigger battery, an integrated rear rack. So the Cross is really for someone who wants to ride, uh, longer rides, uh, comfortably, wanna carry stuff around- Yeah... or, or people. Yeah. Um, and so we need...
We, we, with Cross, we really wanna essentially enter the-What, what, what people refer to as the touring or trekking market. Yeah, yeah. Uh, it's a bit of a weird market. Yeah. [laughs] But essentially it's a, it's a very versatile urban bike. Yeah. So w- what was the biggest, um, change when we look to the, the models before this? You know, what, what do you think is the, is the, the biggest, um, upgrade or change w- when we look at the, the first, uh, few models? Yeah. I, I think when you look at that new bike, um, the comfort of it is, is just, like, so much better. Yeah. Um, and to achieve that difference, we had to actually change quite a lot of parts, um, starting with the suspension. So now you have a suspension in the fork.
Um, it really helps, um, to, to improve that, that comfort, but it's not enough, so we also have one in the saddle. We also have, like, bigger tires, and those three things together, uh, will really make sure that you don't feel, um, the small bumps in, in the road and that, that you can take that bike outside and that's u- it's actually quite nice to go, uh, for a ride in, in the forest, for instance. Yeah. Um, on top of that, we've also changed the handlebars, so it's a bit wider, and so again, the position is more relaxed on the bike. Um, and again, the goal for us was to make sure that you can go for longer ride, like 10, 15, 20 kilometers. Yeah. Um, and to support that, we've also changed the battery, so you have, like, 50% more autonomy on that battery.
It's also made in Europe, um, this one, so it was quite a complex project for us that we started two years ago, uh, but quite important. Um, and I think all of that together really, uh, make a different bike, and again, if you have the chance [laughs] to, to try it, you will feel, uh- I did... the difference. Yeah, yeah. I, I rode it and, and it's very comfort- I, I rode the first one, and I- Yeah... I really loved it, but the position was quite sporty, so you had- Yeah... a lot of, uh, pressure on your hands. So I said in, in, in my review and to people asking me about it, you know, for the city it's wonderful because it's very direct in your steering because your steering is at, on top- Yeah... of the, of the wheel. Right.
Very engaged. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So it's like you can... it's, it's fun. But for, you know, if you're going to make a trip of 30 kilometers, you know, that's, that's, uh, that's... then you get pressure on your hands. But this, this one is, is, is really... But the design language, so what makes you stand out from the rest, is more or less the same, like the fluent lines. Yeah. Um, I think the… it's a bit bigger, the, the tubes. Yeah, it's a bit bigger because, um, we also had to integrate the fork, uh, and the fork was also a bit bigger because you have obviously the spring in the, in the fork and so, so the, also the cables- Yeah... uh, that we wanted to hide. And as you can see, it's, uh, it's beautiful because it's fully integrated. You don't have any, uh, cables popping out. Yeah.
But to achieve that, we also had to increase a bit the size, um- Yeah... of the frame. It, it was also allowing us to, um, to make some, um, parts, um, for the maintenance, like more, mo- more easy to access, uh, like the, the torque sensor, for instance- Yeah... or the comm module. Yeah. So we did those small improvements, again, uh, thinking about the customers and if they have an issue at some point- Yeah... it should be super easy for them to fix it, so. Well, this is a podcast, so it doesn't do the, the, the Cross any justice talking about it. [laughs] So people should really look it up and make a test drive in the cities where they live, because it's really is a wonderful bike. Yeah. Um, you mentioned the, the bigger tires. Um, and it...
n- now s- just i- in the Netherlands, we talk about bikes a lot, and we have a lot of fat bikes and, and we have, uh, like the, the world is changing, what we talked about. You know, there's a transition between classic, uh, way of transportation, like cars, to more in-between transportation, so last mile, last 10 miles transportation by bike. So there's, uh, you know, the, the roads are changing, and at the moment we have a lot of electric bikes which cause a lot of, like, trouble, air quotes, on the road. So for instance, um, the, the, the, the, the, the, the Amsterdam mayor said, "We're going to, uh, limit the speed of the bikes near schools and crossovers," uh, you know, by some sort of technology that sends a signal to the bike. So what's your take on this?
Would you support this kind of, um, me- uh, yeah, measurement, uh, measure against, against high speeds i- in, in, in, in dangerous places? I mean, we… So with Cowboy, first of all, we, we collect all the data thanks to the crash detection system. Yeah. So in our application, we already try to warn the user about like dangerous crossroad or hotspot, um, so they can be more careful. Yeah. And for instance, in, in Amsterdam- Yeah... you have this crossroad with like a lot of rails for the tram, and, and we know it's dangerous, and so we, we let the user know. Um, that being said, if we can further improve the safety of our, of our customers, I think we'll do it, but we'll do it, like, based on, on numbers and, and data.
If it becomes a regulation, of course we support it, but I think we should also reframe the discussion a little bit. And for instance, in, in Belgium or in France, kick scooter operators, they had to, um, decrease the speed of those kick scooters in, in some areas. Yeah. And it, it, it makes sense- Yeah... because sometimes, like, it's a pedestrian ar- area, and you don't want someone, like, speeding in, in, in, in that specific street. Mm-hmm. Um, and so we can completely, uh, support that. Um, but let's also do the same for, for the cars- Yeah... and let's have that discussion for the cars, because- Yeah... again, if you look at the data, it's the most, uh, dangerous- Yeah, of course... uh, mean of transportation. Of course, yeah. And today we have the technology to actually- Yeah... uh, do that. So, um, I think it's great that we look at, uh, speed regulation for, for e-bikes. Yeah.
Uh, but we should look at the entire issue and not just like just- I also think responsibility- Yeah... of parents and people themselves [laughs] is a big thing. So, uh, last question. So, um, okay, you, you, you, you stand through the storm of, uh, corona, you stand through the storm of raising money, you stand of- the storm of tragically losing, uh, a member of your team, which is, which is a major negative milestone in your company, so the future lies ahead of you. Um, I think you... that, uh, the, the Cowboy have proven that they can survive, you know, other brands. Uh, the brand we're not going to mention [laughs] in this podcast. Um, so w- w-I don't need specifics, but what's in the future for Cowboy as a brand and in product wise?
What you can expect in the coming years is a continuity of what we're doing today, right? So you can expect us to continue to up our game on elevating our platform when it comes to quality, performance, design and innovation. You can expect us to continue to launch new products into new product categories, right? So we started with classic, then cruiser, now cross and this will keep going. Of course, we don't want to have 20 different products, right? But we do think we probably need four, five, six different products to answer to every different types of people and needs. We will continue to double down on the connectivity, right? So in the first few years we really focused on health and safety for the bike and for the rider and we will continue to work on that. But we will also
accelerate on the gamification and make it as social as possible. That's nice, gamification. I'd love it if some people would refer to riding on an e-bike close to a live Mario Kart experience. Okay, cool. So let's see how that goes. Who thought of that? No, I mean, we keep experimenting, right? Of course, we're focusing on what the known problems were and are, right? But once you start having addressed that, then you can also remind yourself that you're building a vehicle that's not only practical, but also fun. And we think that with the connectivity, we can make it even more fun and hopefully encourage people to ride just for the sake of riding. Yeah.
Well, guys, congratulations on where you are now and I will be root of you in the future. Thank you. And thanks for having me. Thanks so much. Iets met tech wordt gemaakt door Ruud Karis en Dimitri Vleugel. De productie is in handen van Klets.media. Heb je tips of wil je reageren? Ga dan naar Instagram of mail naar podcast.ietsmettech.nl.
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